In September 2005 I was three things: the media blogger for FishbowlNY, a maniacal Daily Appearance fan, and the alone actuality to bootleg a band recorder and camera into a big Annual Publishers of America accident featuring Jon Stewart interviewing bristles accomplished annual editors in an astonishing bloodbath.
This was a big deal. A decade ago, book was still king. The Internet was still admired by the media with skepticism, as a curio, an beastly acreage busy by bloggers in their pajamas. There was no Twitter. There was no Instagram. Which makes sense, because there were no iPhones. YouTube existed but on the fringes — “Lazy Sunday” was still three months away. The auto were boring advancing off, but aerial in the aflame appointment barrio of Conde Nast, Hearst & Time Inc. it was happy, comfortable, assisting and, cartel I say, complacent business as usual.
The MPA was hosting a big accident for its advertisers: a cocktail affair and console featuring big-name editors-in-chief Graydon Carter of Vanity Fair, Jim Kelly of Time, Kate White of Cosmopolitan and David Zinczenko of Men’s Health — and, in a big coup, chastened by Daily Appearance host Jon Stewart. A thousand bodies abounding Lincoln Center’s Rose Theater, attractive advanced to a fun-filled presentation. The accident was alleged “Laughing Matters: Magazines Bless Humor.”
In September 2005, the Daily Appearance was accepting bill as a must-watch for progressives and media bodies with edge, benumbed aerial on the blemish success of its Indecision 2004 acclamation advantage and blockage relentlessly accordant through Republican aspersion afterwards scandal. You still had to t it at 11pm admitting (or on a echo assuming at 1a.m.) — there was no next-day video, and we were still a agency from boundless DVR.
In that media environment, my next-day Daily Appearance recaps were far and abroad my best accepted posts. But that, for FishbowlNY at Mediabistro in September 2005, usually meant cartage in the hundreds. The media enactment got it that Jon Stewart was a thing, but abounding of the still didn’t absolutely get why. That’s why the MPA anticipation it was altogether safe to book Stewart with their dfaced-name editors. And to be fair, maybe it seemed safe — after all, admitting the Daily Appearance was accomplishing skewering segments and one-liners, Stewart was still by and ample adequately balmy in his interviews (see his annual with Rick Santorum in July 2005). But attractive back, all the signs were there — Jon Stewart may accept followed puppets, but he wasn’t one.
And so — bloodbath. Which is why in September 2005 I had my aboriginal big exhausted in the anatomy of the alone almost-full-transcript of the event, which I still bethink feverishly transcribing in activity and wonder. What can I say, in 2005 we were all abundant beneath jaded. There is a LOT here — but a few notable moments accommodate David Zinczenko proclaiming that “fit is the new rich,” Graydon Carter stubbornly insisting that book would consistently set the agenda, and me accepting Jon Stewart to admit — for the aboriginal time in book that I could find — that he absolutely cared. Which of advance became bright in the years to chase but it was nice to apprehend it said out loud:
“Look, we accept a absolute small, attenuated talent: autograph jokes. Hopefully those jokes are funny. We’re aloof applying that aptitude to things we affliction about. We are antic writers who would adopt to abode jokes about things we affliction about.”
Anyway — for those of you who adore deep-dives into contest that acknowledge their acceptation years later, actuality it is. Forgive me, Dave Zinczenko.
By Rachel on Sep. 30, 2005–12:30 PM
Jon Stewart was on blaze aftermost night at the Annual Publishers of America Annual console “Laughing Matters: Magazines Bless Humor,” activity to boondocks on top editors Graydon Carterof Vanity Fair, Time‘s Jim Kelly, Cosmopolitan‘s Kate White and Dave Zinczenko of Men’s Health . The abode was abounding (according to Folio there were over a thousand bodies there — yowsers!), and Jon was in absolute control, absolution apart with bang afterwards bang and not captivation aback in the slightest, which the army appreciated, if not the poor adventurous editors onstage. Angle in a barrel, people, angle in a barrel.
The night began with a best of two cocktail parties: the absolute ASME accident at Stone Rose in the Time Warner Center, one attic bottomward from the Lincoln Center’s Rose Amphitheater area the console would be held, or the Tenth Annual Creative Excellence in Business Announcement Awards admiral by the theater, area abounding a abashed media attendees wandered about apprehensive why they didn’t accept anyone (panelist Jim Kelly was somewhat befuddled by the abridgement of colleagues untilFishbowl set him beeline and beatific him on downstairs).
Fishbowl, meanwhile, had accustomed at 6:30 for an accident that began at 8 ( you, Announcement Week website!) so we were able to sample all the appetizers including crepe-wrapped filet mignon with aoli sauce, risotto cakes with sundried amazon creme fraiche, pineapple craven skewers, mini-Reuben sandwiches and adorable vegetarian bounce rolls (oh, ashen taco, that I could go aback in time and save you for later!). The allowance abounding up; added wine was passed, Fishbowl resisted. Accepting addled afore the presentation: bad idea. Mustn’t acknowledge accurate animosity to Jon. MUSTN’T.
Killing an hour and a bisected afore a high-profile accident has its perks; like accepting there in time to snag a accidental bench in the average of the advanced row. We sat aing to Playboy VP and Publisher Diane Silberstein, her aide Ron Stern, and ASME Executive Director Marlene Kahan.
The affairs began with ASME admiral Nina Link in a canticle to magazines (“Magazines blow us in so abounding allusive ways”) afore introducing ASME Admiral and Newsweek EIC Mark Whitaker and Reader’s Digest Corporation CEO Tom Ryder. Ryder told a antic wherein Admiral Bush anticipation “Brazilian” was a absolute number, like “gazillion”; laughter, the best medicine. Whitaker had a added on-point anecdote, about panelist Kate White: she chaired a console at an ASME branch on coverlines two years ago (they branch those??) on which Whitaker was participating, and an admirers affiliate asked if there was one chat which would move magazines the most. Whitaker said “God.” Newsweek‘s affection for Jesus-as-coverboy, explained. The aing day, White beatific him a calendar thanking him for alarming a new coverline: “God, that was acceptable aftermost night.” Now booty out “Kate White” and alter with “Jim Kelly.” Hee. Time Man of the Year!
This was acutely entertainment: they had an aperture act. Funny as the consecutive console was she was Susie Essman and she was hilarious, if base as hell. Laurel gives my fingers a breach by accepting it all bottomward below; we appetite to accord backdrop to Marlene Kahan for accepting off a acceptable band on Essman: afterwards Essman accomplished her amusement on how you could acquaint if a man was acceptable in bed by his best in magazines (“Vanity Fair — calls out his own name during ”), Marlene said artlessly “Or, if he has big feet.” Nice one, Marlene! It was the closing punchline of Essman’s set. ASME bodies are FUNNY!
Okay. You’ve been patient. Actuality was are: September 29th, 2005. This is The Daily Appearance Jon Stewart’s Eviscerating Booty On Top Annual Editors And The Industry In General.
And there he is! It’s Jon! He’s so cute, walking out onstage. It’s a acclaimed actuality that he’s somewhat diminutive but, well, he’s absolutely diminutive. No beneath a commanding, assured and instantly absorbing attendance though. HUGE applause.
He pauses, and the army stills. “What a night,” he says, smirking faintly, punchline to come. “What a night for the…(turns about to attending at behemothic awning aloft his head)…”MPA.” He hasn’t got the aboriginal abstraction who they are, and the army loves him for it. Actually, he will abide to insult them all night and they will cackle with glee. “We’re adulatory amusement in magazines. To do that I’m activity to annual editors. That is because they’re hilarious. Vanity Fair, Men’s Health, Consmopolitan, Time — all of them accepted for their humor.”
He recalls actuality approached to host the gig and asked if he capital to annual four top editors. “I thought, wow, that’s great. Or — or — should I put a aggravate in my eye.” See? The army LOVES it! Afresh they mentioned the annual (and by the way, the budget! Lincoln Center! Open bar! Veggie bounce rolls!). “And I bethink thinking…mmm, it ability be interesting. (Faux-mulling) Editors are interesting, they go to parties, they abode “stet” in the margins…they go to parties….fuck it, let’s do it.”
The photographers — all three of them — rush to the advanced of the date in a mini-scrum. Jon is perplexed. “Why the mosh pit? Are you absolutely that absorbed in accepting a annual of Jim Kelly?”
After able Ron in the aboriginal row that, clashing Susie, he won’t berate him for the abridgement of he has with his wife (“My girlfriend,” Ron corrects; “and your girlfriend?” Jon deadpans. “This is the affectionate of amusement we bless tonight”), Jon is accessible to accompany out the gang! He’ll acquaint him alphabetically, he says, because “you would not accept the fucking egos on these people.”
Backstage, I can see Graydon’s apparent contour (well, the beard is unmistakable; he’s a little added ample than imagined). I see him booty a abysmal breath. Aw. Don’t worry, Graydon, you’ll be great. I’m abiding Jon’ll be absolute nice to y’all.
And actuality they are! Graydon! Jim! Kate! David! Out they come, beaming, admiring as bite to be here, acquiescently absent of the barbarous apology to come. Zinczenko goes in for the aing handshake; Jon takes the moment to mug for the cameras. Zinczenko loves it. I accept to say, it’s awe-inspiring seeing them all to scale. I consistently pictured Graydon as alpine and ramrod straight; that said I acquisition him a far added absorbing attendance than I would accept expected, anxious and affable and a blow absentminded, about avuncular. (I anticipate I mentioned that I was sitting in the average of the advanced row — I had access, people. No one stalks like Fishbowl!). Jim Kelly seemed blithe and nice with his creamy white beard and rosy-cheeked smile, as admitting he’d cackle like the Pillsbury Doughboy if you poked him in the stomach. (For the record, we did not try this.) Kate White looked absolute Cosmo-appropriate in hot heels and a smart, fashionable outfit; she’s got herself some abundant legs. David Zinczenko allegedly additionally has abundant legs to bout the abundant abs he’d abuse able-bodied bigger accept as editor of that magazine. He reminded me a bit of Will Arnett’s assuming of Gob on “Arrested Development,” determined perma-smile accompanying with an air of afraid energy. Afresh again, what do I know.
I do apperceive this: amber shoes with atramentous socks and atramentous aggregate abroad are a appearance no-no. And yet, catch Graydon’s feet. They are at my eye akin and I stare, fascinated. Can this be the Graydon Carter
of Toby Young’s “How To Lose Friends And Alienate People” fame? I accept heard acquaint of Graydon’s acrimonious cossack requirements. So what’s with the appearance faux-pas? My eyes accelerate beyond the panel, floor-level. Jim Kelly, black; Jon Stewart, black; gasp! David Zinczenco, brown? He’s all black-pants-and-jacket too! No amber accents, not anywhere! Is it me, or are they both massively wrong? It could be me; I am cutting a white unitard, afterwards all.
Jon opens by affable them to a active altercation on magazines and humor, “which plays, certainly, in Time.” He turns to Graydon. “What do you aspect the abiding success of Vanity Fair. Is it humor? Because that is what we are celebrating.” Graydon nods and agrees, acquainted that yes, amusement does ball a role, both in coverlines and content. And if Jon happened to attending at the masthead he’d see nine or ten bodies larboard over from Spy. Jon thinks for a second. “Why, if amusement is so important, is that annual dead?” [Cheers.] Yet, says Jon, Vanity Fair lives on. Well, says Graydon, “I anticipate amusement works, and irony works awfully able-bodied on television–” “Excellent, excellent” pipes up Jon. Graydon continues: “It’s not as bankable a commodity in print.” Graydon. Are you KIDDING me? You’ve acutely never apprehend this Fishbowl column about how you like bearded men.
Jon changes tacks, allurement Kate how continued Cosmo’s been around. “40 years,” she says proudly, walking into it. “40 years,” says Jon. “If in 40 years these women accept not ample out how to accumulate it quote-unquote “spicy” — is the achievement at Cosmo that if we aloof adhere in there addition bristles years…?” Huge applause. Kate takes this one seriously, apropos Jon to the Cosmo Adulation Lab, area “we’re alive at it all the time.” She says that Cosmo speaks to women in an accurate voice, allegedly with abounding exclamationi points. (Hi, Mr. Kettle!)
Jon cuts her off; this is not meant to be about you, Kate White. “Dave,” he says, thoughtfully. “Why is your annual so gay?” The army ERUPTS. Jon goes on. “I adore health. And yet, aback I apprehend it, I don’t apperceive whether to go to the doctor, or rub my own nipples.” That is SO funny, that’s EXACTLY how I feel aback I apprehend Cosmo!!! Okay actuality my band ran out (yes! We taped it! We’re rebels!) and all my addendum say is “Oh, amuse don’t try to best Jon!!” which I can alone accept agency that Zinczenko has taken the aboriginal of his abounding amiss accomplish in Jon Stewart relations. (NB — if I assume to acrid on poor Dave’s fizz a bit, it’s not because I don’t accord him acclaim for trying; it’s that I don’t accord him acclaim for judgment. Clashing Jon, he does not accept his audience. Or his host. Abnormally his host.)
Zinczenko: “Fit is the New Rich”
Jon wants to apperceive why the men on the awning are consistently “glistening”; Zinczenco says that it’s not consistently “nipple and ripple,” sometimes they accept celebrities in T-shirts. I googled Men’s Bloom to acquisition some bright man-cake, and there is a lot of both nipple and ripple. New admired magazine! Zinczenko says that what he absolutely thinks they should do is get to the basal of Jon’s issues. Cringe. “Good luck,” says Jon. He cautiously accouterment it, allegedly to assure Zinczenko from himself, allurement what DZ admires best about a Cosmo or a Vanity Fair. Given the attenuated focus of Men’s Health, does he aim for that affectionate of longevity? Zinczenko thinks. Aboriginal mistake. “I think, fit is the new rich. I think–” Jon: “What?” Laughter. We’re all affectionate of dumbfounded. He goes on. “Thin is the new rich. Actuality fit has status, and…” I don’t apperceive what he said there; my addendum apprehend “Dude. Stop talking NOW.” Jon looks at Jim Kelly, gesturing at Zinczenko. “Look how poor we are.” Jim shrugs and says, “I’m thinner in person.”
And now Jon’s focus has shifted. Hot seat: Jim.
By Rachel on Sep. 30, 2005–2:36 PMComment
And we’re back! Round Two of our write-up, but aftermost night the hits aloof kept on coming. By this point we’d all started activity a big apologetic for our hapless panelists. It was annihilation compared to how acute it would get. I admiration aback they accomplished they were brave.
We larboard off with Jon Stewart axis to Jim Kelly. He licks his chops. “Time annual has been a attitude in America, yet…what’s happened?” (I-can’t-believe-he-just-said-that laughter). “One federal prosecutor says ‘let me see your notes’ and anon anybody pulls their underwear over their active and easily it over.” A pause. “Not alone that…Newsweek breach the story.” Oooh, snap! “Jim,” he intones, solemnly, “what the fuck?” Graydon Carter is afraid with laughter. His about-face next. But Jon wants to know; this, he says, “is a huge issue.”
Meanwhile, in the alfresco world, annual is breaking that Judith Miller has been appear from jail. Jim plays the Blame Game, anon invoking accumulated ancestor Time Inc. and how “Norm Pearlstine in his accumulated role decided” to absolution the addendum alone “after angry it out in the Supreme Court.” Don’t looky here, mister. You anticipate I like accepting to avert this stuff? “Needless to say, we ambition that we didn’t accept any emails to about-face over.” Jon after-effects it a for the aing acute question. “Let me ask you this: why is your annual so gay?” Nice. The army loves this! I do too. Jon is so abuse quick, and he has this calmly beneath his control. The guy is a pro.
Jon opens it up to the added three: “As editors, accept any of you anytime been in a bearings area you’ve thought, ‘There is peril in what we’re doing?’” (To Jim) “You guys are accepting central advice from the government all the time…” (to others) “Do you anytime acquisition yourselves in a agnate siuation?” Laughter. This is the affair about bodies who do things effortlessly: they accomplish it attending easy. David Zinczenko, don’t abatement into the trap! For the adulation of God, no! His aperture opens. Sigh. “It happens to me all the time. Appropriate now the government is on my ass to try and acquisition out the Abysmal Throat of the Bench Press.” My band reflects a abbreviate access of laughter; my addendum say “Oy. I’m uncomfortable.” DZ: “And I’m captivation out! I am not cogent them what’s activity on.” Jon spares him any follow-up. Kate White all-overs in: For her, it’s boxy “when we’re activity for 101 tips and we alone accept a hundred.” God, the burden to whip off one-liners! It’s boxy stuff. Appropriate now as I sit actuality abacus my two cents, I accept the affluence of the annul on; not so aback you’re on the atom (and let it be accepted that I haven’t gotten to the best acute allotment of the band yet: area I speak). Jon’s plucky, he picks it up by adage that yes, your mags are all absolute altered but we’re aggravating to acquisition the accepted cilia “which is, of course, humor.”
On to Graydon. “You guys breach Abysmal Throat. Mark Felt. Did you feel there was peril in that?” “You know, it’s a absolute aberrant time for journalists, if you accomplish a aberration it can be a career-ender, and a lifetime’s acceptability can get tossed in the ashcan — you all saw what happened to Dan Rather.” says Graydon.
He goes on to admonish the allowance that he appear the Mark-Felt-is-Deep-Throat commodity afterwards fact-checking it with the two bodies who absolutely knew (brass balls, people!). That was scary, he said. He was on a flight aback to New York from his amusement (yay Graydon and Anna! Continued alive love!) and allegedly the pilot came on and appear it. Jon turns to Kate. “Kate. What should Graydon’s wife accept done on their honeymoon?” Hilarious. The army loves this. It seems like Kate does too. Kate: “I can accomplish a few suggestions from the Adulation Lab.” Jon goggles a bit; there absolutely is a Adulation Lab? Kate: “Of course — everything is fact-checked.” (Kate! Are you hiring?) Jon can’t accept it. “Everything is fact-checked? Your arch tips are fact-checked? Aback you abode about greeting your bedmate in Saran Wrap, it’s fact-checked?” Kate confirms, but chides Jon gently: “Saran is dead.” Jon looks at Zinczenco. “What about for dudes?” Hee. Zinczenko opens his mouth. Never a acceptable sign. “I can acknowledgment her question,” he says confidently. Is there a chat for “swagger” to alarm speaking? “Graydon should accept gone on his amusement and he should accept had affluence of orgasms — multiple, assorted orgams. So abounding orgasms that Stephen Hawking couldn’t calculation them. That’s what Graydon should accept done, according to Cosmo.” I ambition I could go aback in time and save us all from anytime accepting heard that sentence. In the allowance of my anthology I accept accounting “DZ stop.” “Stop” is accent three times.
Jon: “Let’s get aback to humour.” Snap again!
Actually, though, Jon turns to Jim and addresses an ‘issue’: “With the acceleration of annual today, how does Time breach relevant?” Jim reminds Jon that Time has a website. Jon all-overs his head. “I’m not allurement you how you get bodies to subscribe,” he says. God, he is so quick. Jim reminds Jon that Time bankrupt the annual of Michael Brown‘s resume-fluffing but concedes that, yes, as a weeklyTime is somewhat accountable by, well, time. Jon wants to apperceive how abounding times Jim needs to get austere by an bearding antecedent afore they’re cut off. “Let’s say that the white abode has — let’s say, ‘operatives’ — and their job is to alarm magazines and say…untrue things. And you accept had that convenance afresh done to you. At what point do you stop talking to them? Or is that not an option?” Well, says Jim, aback the advice comes in, they verify it! Says Jon: “When will that start?” Laughter. (NB Jon is affliction Jim Kelly actuality for the sins of the brethren; it wasn’t Time that got austere by an capricious distinct bearding antecedent beforehand this year. But, it was Time that angry its addendum over to the Grand Jury).
“David,” says Jon, “why are the men in your annual on the awning consistently showered?” If you are accustomed with Jon’s delivery, you apperceive that he uses pauses and articulate accentuation flawlessly to aggravate the best out of the joke, catastrophe not on an analysis calendar but on a added declarative, accurate one. “If they knew they were activity to be on the cover, they could accept showered afore the photo shoot.” DZ responds: “We haven’t absolutely had shots of guys who are showering on the awning of the magazine; we are assuming guys, however, in their ideal state.” Jon’s not buying, really. There is some mockery, broken by band and laughter.
Jon switches focus. “Covers. Let’s allocution covers.” He swivels to Graydon. A beat. “What were you guys thinking?” Graydon quips: “A cry for help?” Jon: “That was ironic, right?” (We are speaking, of course, of Paris Hilton on the October VF cover). Jon wants to apperceive if accepting Paris on the awning makes a aberration in sales. “Not particularly,” says Graydon. Suddenly from the aback of the allowance “Bullshit!” Woo, angry crowd! Guess someone’s cyberbanking on Paris in benumbed chaps. Graydon still wants to abode this seriously, adage that the annual is meant to reflect the ability about it — “we try to allotment off our own allotment of the culture.” As
for Paris, Graydon says that he’s been watching her for the accomplished four or bristles years, and — “Yes, I’ve been watching her too,” leers Jon. Graydon continues: “People are absorbed by her…she has an ‘X’ factor. I don’t apperceive what her talents are…” Jon smirks. The army laughs. He turns. “Kate, would you like to acquaint Graydon what her talents are?” Hee. So, then, says Jon, it’s about putting a alluring bulk on the cover? Nah, says Graydon, there’s a absolute to how abundant appulse a awning can have. Huh? Two words for you Graydon: Jude Law. (NB I can’t *quite* accomplish this out so I could be misrepresenting his point. But still, he seems to be adage that his annual will address admitting the cover. This will absolutely appear up soon.) Graydon admits that his accouchement anticipation the Paris awning sucked. How old are they? asks Jon. Amid 12 and 21. “So the admirers that is evidently hers…” Graydon cuts in. “Well, I don’t attending at an audience, I never attending at demographic charts.” I’m abiding Si’s animated to apprehend that. Besides, says Graydon, she looks bigger and “more presentable” than she’s looked elsewhere. RIDING CHAPS, Graydon. Accord it up. Jon takes addition approach: “Let me ask you this,” he says, I anticipate to Jim Kelly. “When will Time Annual acquisition Jesus?”
I’ll acquaint you when, in the aing post! Sorry, but this takes a while. Appear aback soon.
NEXT: Kate White thinks women in their 20s and 30s accept abbreviate absorption spans; admeasurement affairs (where apportionment is concerned); and your affectionate blogger blurts out a burst catechism to Jon Stewart, appropriately absolutely accident the appropriate to accumulate authoritative fun of David Zinczenko. Don’t absence it!
By Rachel on Sep. 30, 2005–5:30 PM
Home stretch. If you admired Allotment I and Allotment II you’re gonna adulation this. Or aloof like it, whatever.
We larboard Jon Stewart attractive for Jesus on the awning of the newsweeklies and Jim Kelly swearing that he’s all for evolution. God is watching, Jim.
Enough with the Saran Wrap, Jon wants to apperceive how abundant merch they’re moving. What’s your circulation? Jim Kelly says Time‘s is 4 million — impressive (but concern whether it takes into annual those subpoenaed subscriptions that the U.S. attorney’s appointment wanted — oh, right, those). Still, Time is the bright winner; the aing is Cosmo, at a air-conditioned 3 actor (2 actor in newsstand sales!),Men’s Bloom with 1.7 actor and Vanity Fair with 1.1 million. He looks at Graydon: “You’re fired.” Did Jon apperceive all that? He asked them in bottomward order. Funny. Jon wonders; does that beggarly Jim makes added than Graydon? Hmmm. “What’s your bulk point?” Jon demands, aggravating to get to the basal of this. $4.95, apparently. Can that be true? I’ve got a Newsweek in advanced of me; it’s $3.95. Jon wisely addendum that the bulk decreases with a subscription; and by the way, he asks, “how abundant is one of those football phones?” Graydon brand the football buzz joke. He’s absolutely blithe actually. Who knew? Graydon’s bulk point is $4.95 too. Kate‘s is $3.95. David‘s is “$25 for a ten-magazine subscription.” So, $2.50 says Jon. Consistently gotta be difficult. Newsstand price, please. $4.00 says David. Jon seems surprised. Hey man, Rx for the Complete Man don’t appear cheap. Fit is the new rich.
We alpha talking about cable vs. newsstand. Kate says that Cosmo moves 2 actor in newsstand sales. Whoa. “God” on the coverlines, no doubt. Graydon says that VF is added about some candied cable action. “So, you could absolutely put annihilation on the cover,” says Jon. Case in beforehand point. DZ’s annual sells EVERYWHERE: “on the newsstand, subscriber base…” Jon looks at him. “Why do I feel like you’re about to acquaint me a time share?” Oh, DZ. I do like how you accumulate on trying. It’s a acclaim to you actually. Clashing the treble-orgasm ref of earlier. Jon looks at the audience: “Thin is the new rich.” Laughter. Nice. But DZ is about to
win their hearts: “We’re both but best of our money comes from advertisers, actually.” Who hoo! Clap if you’re an advertiser and we affectionate of forgot to allocution about your industry! Jon looks at Graydon. “How abounding announcement pages?” Graydon: “In…what?” Jon: “VANITY FAIR.” Appealing funny. Oh, Uncle Graydon, area did you leave your teeth this time? VF gets 300 abounding pages, apparently. He asks Jim, and I can’t absolutely accomplish it out — I anticipate he said a brace thousand pages a year, which breach bottomward into 30–40 pages per issue. Jon wants to apperceive “what’s that affair area they boost ‘em all calm aback you’re the average of a adventure [and all the sudden] you’re account about asthma?” (No, really, what is it? Until we apperceive we’re activity to alarm them Clumpy Ad Pages). Jon: “It’s like, ‘oh, my God, I can’t accept they put dioxin — whoa! Hay fever!” Jim says they try not to be that egregious, and afresh gives a accommodating shout-out to their “wonderful advertisers.” Nice.
Jon turns to now Kate and David, adage that their mags are like big ol’ artefact placements “It’s about like ‘Hey, I’m putting out this announcement book and in the average of it is a tip on giving a .’” We *think* that one was addressed to Kate. We absence a few activated one liners amid “” and the aing affair we accept accounting in our notes — no joke: “Service magazine.” Jon says that it seems like Kate and David attempt added for content, and Jim and Graydon attempt added for…relevance. Ooh. Kate says that Cosmo has its appearance pages as able-bodied as annual for women about issues they’re anxious about. Jon posits that Kate and David are “talking abundant added demographically than these guys.” David’s not so sure; afterwards all, “we’re appetite to be a complete men’s affairs magazine, so we awning business, , nutrition, relationships, finance, fashion, travel…” Jon wonders how abounding guys absolutely charge a complete magazine. Aren’t they attractive beneath for a “life guide” than, well, products? This band of analytic is a little glib, and absolutely Kate makes a acceptable point here, cogent Jon that not alone do abounding of her readers accumulate the annual about as a advertence (handy bedside astrologer!) but to lots of them it’s their bible. “Whoa,” says Jon. “You met somebody who referred to Cosmo as the Bible?” Jon reminds her that lots of readers are “literally sitting in doctor’s offices, waiting… It’s like, quick hits, no?” Kate: “Not for the 2 actor bodies who buy it anniversary month.” Jon: “Don’t you anticipate it’s like quick hits,” snapping, as anticipation that will somehow argue the EDITOR OF THE MAGAZINE. “It’s like, oh, quick ambrosial tip, no?” Dude, if they accept COVERLINE WORKSHOPS don’t you anticipate they apperceive how the magazines are read? You’re actuality too glib; we’re with Kate on this one.
And as anon as she wins us, she loses us. “Well, absolutely for a women in their 20s and 30s they’ve absolutely got a beneath absorption span–” she is cut off by a low blare from Jon, and a cavernous “oooh!” through the crowd. Says Jon: “They’re not activity to be blessed you said that.” We best absolutely are not! How cartel you belittle an absolute two decades of wo– no way, did I absolutely accomplishment a six backpack of Diet Coke today? Gross. Zinczenko, on the added hand, will not be absent from his primary purpose: to abrade Jon. DZ: “I would say that we accept one of the hardest jobs out there which is aggravating to get guys, you know, hypochondriacs like you, to go to a doctor.” [Rumble from crowd] DZ says that it’ll booty a gunshot anguish or an accidentally burst limb to get a guy to the doctor. “Guys charge this affectionate of advice and the alone way you can get to them is through humour.” EVERYBODY LISTEN UP! DAVID ZINCZENKO IS VERY SMART! “It’s like, Marshall McLuhan said, all jokes are grievances, so what you accept to do is conciliate them through humour and afresh arm them with the advice that they charge to change their lives. So we appear in — not clashing what you do on your show, Jon.”
Says Jon : “I’ve generally said The Daily Appearance is the poor man’s Men’s Health.” David, I’m bottomward with the aggregate you aloof said except the McLuhan reference. You should booty in a Woody Allen flick sometime.
Jon wants to apperceive about the bleared band amid beat and advertising, abnormally in Time. Let’s say, he asks Jim, some biologic aggregation that is a big advertiser has some scandal, and you abode about it. Do they cull up and breach or do they aloof not acquaint in that issue? “They aloof don’t acquaint in that issue,” says Jim. Acutely they’re not ambidextrous with Morgan Stanley. Graydon remembers eight years aback aback they bankrupt the adventure that would become the base for “The Insider.” Ah, memories.
And now a chat for our sponsors: “Do you anticipate announcement in magazines works?” asks Jon. Graydon does, indubitably, and credibility to Google as an example: “I use Google, bodies use it like it’s a utility” but accursed if he can bethink a distinct ad he’s apparent on it, ever. “But,” he says, “you do bethink ads in newspapers and magazines.” Acceptable point, Graydon.
David Zinczenko’s magazine, on the added hand, “worships at the chantry of our readers.” The army has appear to apprehend this; their
disbelieving amusement keeps me from audition what absolutely he agency by that. I heard the chat “passionate” though. Accept we talked about Elizabethan England yet? No? Oh, goody, can’t wait. Jon turns to Kate. “Whereas you acutely accept antipathy for your readers.” Oooh, zing! Jon kids, he kids. Whither Cosmo ads, really? “I anticipate announcement is acumen bodies appear back… they’re shoppers, they’re buyers…” Does the internet accomplish her nervous? Nah, says Kate, we gots ourselves a huge website. DZ hops agilely in actuality to trumpet the virtues of reading. “We basically attending at the actuality that added bodies are account and autograph than anytime afore as a acceptable thing — the anatomy is changing, how you acquaint with them… but the actuality is that three hundred thousand times added bodies are account today than there were aback Shakespeare was alive…” Already again, all consecutive words are absent in aporetic admirers laughter. “I’m gonna do the algebraic on that,” deadpans Jon.
And afresh he turns it over to the attic for questions! “I abominably don’t apperceive what you absolutely appetite to apperceive and I don’t know, clearly, anything.” Jon admits that he didn’t apperceive the accident was declared to be for advertisers, and “that ability be a nice abode to start.” Indeed.
And there my band ends. Which because this is additionally the point area my addendum get way worse. But, I will try.
Someone asks Jon what magazines he reads. “Juggs,” he deadpans. “To me, gigantic tits are the new rich.” Crass but funny, I will admit. I’m down-covered on what came aing but I wrote bottomward “Jon Stewart Living” and afresh “I’m activity to battle you,” which I apperceive was directed at Zinczenko. Afresh addition from Elle asked a catechism but accursed if I can bethink it, I was half-trying to codify article intelligent-sounding about blogs, the best unintelligent-sounding chat anytime to alarm what my activity has become (“squalor” on the added hand, has a assertive ring). I ample God had put me in the advanced row for a reason. I started advantageous absorption afresh already Graydon said article about how amusement formed bigger “if the burghal or country is absolutely accomplishing well.” What? I’m not so abiding I accede with Graydon’s angle on humor. For the guy who co-founded Spy he doesn’t assume to authority it in decidedly aerial regard.
Jon asks the babe in the red sweater about her affiliation — she’s from Elle. (Girl in red sweater from Elle! Email me and let me apperceive what you asked! Actually, anyone who wants to advice me reconstruct this actuality amuse do. Check aback Monday because I bet I’ll accept a added complete adaptation up then). Jon looks from Elle babe to Kate: “Oh, they are absolutely fucking you up.” Afresh he rocks some artery moves for his homie in the audience. “We outsell them by a lot,” sniffs Kate. Snippity-snap!
Now. The aing affair I accept accounting in my addendum is “Oh well. I tried.” What I approved to do: get Jon Stewart to accept that what he did was important, and mattered. Needless to say, I did not accomplish in so doing. I ambition I had taped it absolutely because admitting I was afraid audition my stuttering, averseness cocky aggravating to appoint Jon Stewart in debate, I absolutely was planning to anxiously transcribe it, because bluntly that’s alone fair. So I will endeavor to abduction the aspect of the exchange.
Somehow allocution angry to comedy, and Jon said that he admired bodies wouldn’t set such abundance by his show, becauase candidly people, he was a antic writer. His agents were jokewriters. Losers, actually. And it absolutely didn’t bulk to added than that. “I chase puppets” afraid in the air. Now, for those of you who accept apprehend one of my arduous Daily Appearance write-ups (and aristocrat knows how you slogged through this one), you will apperceive that I don’t buy that. I anticipate Jon cares, I anticipate he has an agenda, I anticipate he wants to accomplish a difference. If not, why accept guests on the appearance at all, frankly? Why accept Robert Kennedy appear on for a laugh-free 10-minute articulation about autism in American children? Why is Fareed Zakaria one of your admired guests? Why not aloof spent the accomplished appearance adulatory the camp antics of Steve, Ed, Rob and Samantha? No. Ball can and should be abounding things: toilet jokes or “According to Jim” or Entourage; academician or lowbrow, belly or cerebral. And, it can be a barge (yes, I apperceive you all affair I’m afterwards Jon’s barge anyway). Anyhow, the point is that I absolutely anticipate that the Daily Appearance matters, and added than that I anticipate Jon wants it to bulk because he wants to aftereffect change.
So aback he said article to the aftereffect of “what we do doesn’t absolutely matter” I kinda got aflame and afore I knew it my duke was up and I was aptitude advanced all earnest-student-revolutionary appearance and adage article to the aftereffect of “What about actuality right? Doesn’t that matter?” Abiding it mattered, said Jon. So? So, I said, haltingly and not-very-eloquently, you say this all the time about how your appearance doesn’t bulk yet day afterwards day you address what’s absolutely accident and lay it bald and skewer the administration; doesn’t that beggarly you accept an calendar and isn’t that important to you? (NB I did say “laid bare” and “skewer” but I anticipation that application a few broken words to aback “agenda” would be bigger than absolutely adage “agenda.” People, it was scary! Jon was talking to me! Seriously, I am animated that the thousand bodies there were abaft me.) Jon agreed that yes, that is what he does, adage “I’m there every night” (I said “So am I”) but he said basically that look, we’re comedians, we’re in it to accomplish jokes, so if you’re attractive to the Daily Appearance for some college purpose, you’re activity to be disappointed.*
Then David Zinczenko jumped in. I apperceive what you’re thinking, I was too (notes say “DZ agrees with me. Ulp.”), but I accepted him befitting the cilia activity and he fabricated a acceptable point, allurement “Why isn’t the annual a commitment arrangement for things that are right?” Of course, that’s area it splinters into spin — ergo, Fox News, CNN, CBS/NBC/ABC and all the talking active in between. My point, that I alone to appropriately make, was that aloof because Jon did it application amusement didn’t beggarly he wasn’t accomplishing it. I aloof capital to apprehend him accept that yes, actuality appropriate was important and yes, it was important to him.
Well, acknowledgment to David Zinczenko I anticipate I got my wish. Jon said, seriously — and I anticipate it’s notable that he wasn’t arise jokes: “Look, we accept a absolute small, attenuated talent: autograph jokes. Hopefully those jokes are funny. We’re aloof applying that aptitude to things we affliction about. We are antic writers who would adopt to abode jokes about things we affliction about.”
JON CARES! You know, I’m not abiding I’ve anytime apparent that acceptance anywhere. As far as I’m anxious that was the best allotment of the night.
Then he said, “I don’t accept aback amusement became so important,” affectionate of marvelling, I think, that “people feel that underserved” by acceptable annual commitment (NB I don’t anticipate that’s it; it’s the bodies he mocks that underserve us). “Boy, I ambition you could be at the meetings. We’re comedians. We’re fuckin’ losers.” Afresh he commented that alike if there was an absence of leadership, “don’t attending at us for that because at the end of the day you will be acutely disappointed.”
Still: JON CARES. You can’t booty it back, Jon! We got you! Whooooooo!
Doesn’t it feel like this should be over? You’re cogent me. It’s not. But soon, soon.
Update: Now, now! Actuality we go again.
New catechism from the audience: who are the funniest writers you’ve anytime formed with? Graydon says Bruce Handy. Jon’s all, “ooh, he’s funny, those “Deep Thoughts” are funny!” Graydon’s all, er, Jon, I anticipate you beggarly Jack Handey. Score one for Graydon, who afresh loses my adulation already afresh by bombastic that all the funny bodies leave journalism for Hollywood because “the money is better.” We don’t accept acquaintance with that but we’d absolutely booty your chat on it. Jim Kelly additionally brand Bruce Handy, as able-bodied as Joel Stein and Patty Marx (Jon mocks her non-famousness — pride goeth, Jon!). Kate White makes a point of adage how alluringly funny she finds her changeable writers, but aback it absolutely comes to sidesplitting laughs, she loves the boys. There was a funny assemblage they assassin to abode some coverlines and they were aloof hilarious! Don’t charge to affirm that in the adulation lab! Kate, I’d acquisition this acid if I wasn’t already absent by article else. Ha, ha. DZ said they accept funny writers all the time, best conspicuously Steve Martin who able a allotment on why men accept nipples. Wonders Jon: “Why do men accept nipples?” (NB some men accept three nipples! It’s true!)
Here’s area we get into the absorbing stuff. An admirers affiliate brings up Jon Stewart on Crossfire; did annihilation acrimony him appropriately in print? Not really, says Jon: “I don’t accede the book media as relevant.” OUCH. Jon says it’s “kind of adamantine to get formed up” about annihilation in print. Booty that, Gutenberg! Graydon disagrees, strongly, abandoning how abundant has happened aback Jim and he “started at Time 27 years ago this month” (cool media factoid!). Jon responds by adage that it’s all about TV: “the calendar is apprenticed now by the 24 hour network.” Graydon says no way, “they are artlessly refractors of what appears in print.” Jon not-so-respectfully disagrees. “I didn’t say you don’t accept your place,” he said. “It’s aloof at the children’s table.” Already again, OUCH.
[In my addendum I accept written: “Kate & DZ accept a lot to contribute.”]
Graydon and Jon are digging in for debate. Good! Let’s do it! Jon cites the archetype of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth campaign: calmly discredited in print, but the boundless TV acknowledgment aching Kerry like a sumbitch. Graydon is stubborn: “Print provides adherence and balance.” Jon is appropriately stubborn: “What’s active annual now, the way that annual is driven, is not in print.”
Says Graydon triumphantly: “Television doesn’t breach news.” Cough, Abysmal Throat, cough. GREAT POINT. There is 18-carat (relieved?) applause. Graydon says that book pushes scholarship forward. Jon is about abrupt here. “We don’t run on blame scholarship forward. Bodies who voted for the Bush administering were apprenticed on best of the issues. And it’s not because they were account the New York Times and not compassionate it!”
Graydon says that book may not ability everyone, but it alcove the analytical accumulation of the bodies itneeds to reach. Jon calls this out for actuality hardly elitist, and amiss to boot: “The majority of the country doesn’t action on print.”
Kate makes a acceptable point about the blockage ability of print: bodies accumulate their magazines about (it’s true; my accommodation is a absolute firetrap). Jon all-overs his head, says “I absolutely anticipate you’ve absent the point”; he didn’t say that book wasn’t important. Graydon says you did too, YOU said we’re sitting at the CHILDREN’S TABLE. Hmph. “I did say children’s table,” says Jon, reconsidering. “That was…funny.” Look, he says, book is accomplished and all that but it’s about “what’s active the discourse.” Book is not active the discourse. End of story.
Awkward silence. I mean, this was a appealing active agitation with an a admirers and a (presumably) alike added a console (whee was Jim Kelly? My addendum do not reflect his participation, which is odd, because he’s the editor of Time. If I absent actuality let me know). Addition abroad asks Jon about the appulse of the internet. He says that it doesn’t accept the aforementioned array of appulse as TV. Okay, I am DEFINITELY antagonistic with him here. He senses this, because he says: “Here’s addition thing: What the fuck do I know?” He says yes, the internet is important, but “all it is is a commitment system.” If he’s so all about the 24-hour annual aeon and what is active the discourse, he should not be discounting the web.
His “what the fuck do I know?” was meant as a punchline, but conceivably additionally to appease the crowd; afterwards all, admitting he is absolutely by now an able on abounding things he doesn’t apperceive the book media like the bodies in that room, and his affectation on a cardinal of capacity suggests that he didn’t absolutely abstraction the stats afore activity in. Alike so, aback he does assignment anon off accepted contest as necessarily appear in the media, his angle on are cogent insofar as they acknowledge how his own needs for adjacency are met. Of course, accepting a agents of writers and advisers allegedly helps, too.
The console ends by advancing aback to humor; the amphitheater is complete. Kate says that she think’s amusement is “extraordinarily important” and addendum that her readers appear to Cosmo for advice AND entertainment, delivered in an “amusing and cheeky” way. She said that absolutely Cosmo had fabricated a concerted accomplishment to inject amusement into the annual had had noticed “a big lift” in the year afterward that action (no added specific advice than that). The aing anticipate I accept in my addendum is “humor is a way of ambidextrous with anxiety”; who wants to bet that’s Zinczenko?
That is the end of my notes, because that is aback Jon angry to the admirers and said, “Do you guys accept added questions? What time is this declared to be over?” and, with no absolute acknowledgment from the army declared his hapless panelists formally at ease, thanking them for their participation.
There was no moment of Zen.
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